Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Black Fine Tuning Knobs on AS103
zach331
#1 Posted : 6/20/2009 7:24:18 PM

Groups: Member
Joined: 3/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2
I bought an AS103BM a couple months ago. Been playing the heck out of it. One night our bass player says to me, "What are those black knobs for?" Beats me. So I look it up in the owners manual and find out they are for fine tuning. I've played around with them just a bit and I don't get it. Seems more of a pain than using the tuners. Am I missing something here? Do people actually use these things?
MaxOfMetal
#2 Posted : 6/20/2009 7:32:07 PM
MaxOfMetal


Groups: Member
Joined: 1/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4,606
Man
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
zach331 wrote:
I bought an AS103BM a couple months ago. Been playing the heck out of it. One night our bass player says to me, "What are those black knobs for?" Beats me. So I look it up in the owners manual and find out they are for fine tuning. I've played around with them just a bit and I don't get it. Seems more of a pain than using the tuners. Am I missing something here? Do people actually use these things?


They are not meant for great amount of tuning changes, just small tune ups. They are more precise than the tuners on the headstock, hence the name FINE tuners.

For instance if your guitar's low E (6th) string is about 11 cents off of perfect, using the tuner on the headstock would be perfectly fine. Though say the same string is just 5 cents off, then the fine tuners would be easier to use, without doing the ping-pong game with tuning.

On a fixed, non locked bridge guitar they are not absolutely necessary, just a helpful little extra.
Current Ibanez "Heard":
91' UV7BK "Green Dot"
91' UV7PWH
Guest
#3 Posted : 6/21/2009 10:04:00 AM
Groups:
Joined: 10/17/2007(UTC)
Posts: 39,204
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I love my fine tuners, and it is too bad that Ibanez decided to not use this bridge anymore with the 103 series guitars.

You tune your guitar normally, stretch the strings etc. It's all good and stable. Then you would use the fine tuners like the above poster suggested. They are especially useful to tweak the ever annoying G string, as well as to make adjustments based on humidity.

If you look at the construction, they pivot the individual saddles. Very interesting engineering!
zach331
#5 Posted : 6/21/2009 3:36:01 PM

Groups: Member
Joined: 3/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2
Thanks for the replies. I'll play with those little black knobs some more. Thanks.
Hikey Mikey
#6 Posted : 6/21/2009 5:52:02 PM
Hikey Mikey


Groups: Member
Joined: 7/17/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,220
Location: United States
Hey Zach, I see you posted but I thought I'd add my two cents. I have an AS103 with the fine tuners and I do use them. Usually I ONLY have to use them as opposed to the headstock tuners because the guitar holds a tune well. Just a little adjustment usually suffices.

They do have a limited range, however, so occasionally I find I have to set the fine tuners in the middle of their range, then tune the guitar with the headstock tuners.

Enjoy, great instrument!
Henceforth I ask not good-fortune, I myself am good-fortune.

--Walt Whitman, "Song of the Open Road"
booster
#7 Posted : 6/22/2009 4:14:34 AM

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/22/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: UK
Hi, new member here.

I bought an AS103 a couple of months ago (A mind blowing guitar for the money) and it had the black fine tuners on.(must have been old stock). I understood they were for easy adjustment of intonation and that's what i used them for. I could be wrong about that, but they worked great for intonation adjusments on mine.
meggiedude
#8 Posted : 6/22/2009 9:54:55 AM
meggiedude


Groups: Member
Joined: 6/3/2009(UTC)
Posts: 312
Location: Warwickshire, UK
booster wrote:
Hi, new member here.

I bought an AS103 a couple of months ago (A mind blowing guitar for the money) and it had the black fine tuners on.(must have been old stock). I understood they were for easy adjustment of intonation and that's what i used them for. I could be wrong about that, but they worked great for intonation adjusments on mine.

Hmm, Don't think this is right.
Intonation is adjusted by moving the saddles on the bridge for each string, i.e adjusting the overall length of the string from nut to saddle. If you are adjusting for intonation with the fine tuners you are knocking it out of tune at the same time.
They are as the name suggests fine tuners, not intonation adjusters.
Guest
#10 Posted : 6/22/2009 9:58:05 AM
Groups:
Joined: 10/17/2007(UTC)
Posts: 39,204
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Yes they do not adjust intonnation at all-- the saddles do not move up or down and therby increase or decrease the scale length of the strings. The fine tuners instead make the saddles pivot either up or down, and that increases or decreases the pitch. The intonnation remains identical.
meggiedude
#11 Posted : 6/22/2009 10:10:26 AM
meggiedude


Groups: Member
Joined: 6/3/2009(UTC)
Posts: 312
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Derouin wrote:
Yes they do not adjust intonnation at all-- the saddles do not move up or down and therby increase or decrease the scale length of the strings. The fine tuners instead make the saddles pivot either up or down, and that increases or decreases the pitch. The intonnation remains identical.

Sorry to pick you up on this mate - but the saddles I am refering to are the grooved blocks on the tune-o-matic bridge which sits in font of the tailpiece. To change intonation you have to adjust these towards or away from the nut (as appropriate) with the aid of the 6 little screws on the tune-o-matic. Its best to do this after slackening off the tension in the string (to avoid breaking the string), adjust saddle position, retension, test, and again, and again etc until you get the intonation right.
Intonation is not controlled by anything on the tailpiece.
If I am misinterpreting what you mean then I apologise.
Guest
#12 Posted : 6/22/2009 10:16:23 AM
Groups:
Joined: 10/17/2007(UTC)
Posts: 39,204
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I am refering only to the black fine tuners only. The 'saddles' I mention are the correct definition of saddles as that is the part in which each string sits comfy. But yeah, you can only make inntonation changes via the bridge and not the tail piece.

They should not have discontinuted the fine tuners on the 103 series. It is a nice touch to a guitar that sets itself as being better from the competition in many little ways.
meggiedude
#13 Posted : 6/22/2009 10:31:22 AM
meggiedude


Groups: Member
Joined: 6/3/2009(UTC)
Posts: 312
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Derouin wrote:
I am refering only to the black fine tuners only. The 'saddles' I mention are the correct definition of saddles as that is the part in which each string sits comfy. But yeah, you can only make inntonation changes via the bridge and not the tail piece.

They should not have discontinuted the fine tuners on the 103 series. It is a nice touch to a guitar that sets itself as being better from the competition in many little ways.


Well I've always known the blocks in a tune-o-matic to be saddles - comfy or not, but lets not bicker about that :-) (Google tune-o-matic - to see what I mean).
I totally agree with your point here about the extras you get with this guitar. You normally see fine tuners like this on floyd rose + locking nut type set ups. They didn't have to throw in this type of tailpiece in - its clearly not a guitar put together by bean-counters. I've just bought my second Artcore - so I'm clearly hooked. lol.
booster
#9 Posted : 6/22/2009 10:39:23 AM

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/22/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: UK
meggiedude wrote:
booster wrote:
Hi, new member here.

I bought an AS103 a couple of months ago (A mind blowing guitar for the money) and it had the black fine tuners on.(must have been old stock). I understood they were for easy adjustment of intonation and that's what i used them for. I could be wrong about that, but they worked great for intonation adjusments on mine.

Hmm, Don't think this is right.
Intonation is adjusted by moving the saddles on the bridge for each string, i.e adjusting the overall length of the string from nut to saddle. If you are adjusting for intonation with the fine tuners you are knocking it out of tune at the same time.
They are as the name suggests fine tuners, not intonation adjusters.


Yes i know all about moving the saddles to adjust intonation, but they did work for making fine intonation adjustments and that's what i used them for.
g_mon
#14 Posted : 6/22/2009 1:03:09 PM

Groups: Member
Joined: 1/22/2009(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: KS
Fine tuners change pitch not intonation.
meggiedude
#15 Posted : 6/22/2009 1:45:39 PM
meggiedude


Groups: Member
Joined: 6/3/2009(UTC)
Posts: 312
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Thats right. You may think you are changing intonation - you are just making the string going flat or sharp. You can only change intonation by making the adjustment at the bridge not the tailpiece.
Guest
#16 Posted : 6/22/2009 1:48:20 PM
Groups:
Joined: 10/17/2007(UTC)
Posts: 39,204
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
We are talking in circles!

The real debate is why on earth Ibanez decided to cut corners and not use the fine tuned tail piece on the new model 103s. Not good.
MaxOfMetal
#17 Posted : 6/22/2009 2:23:45 PM
MaxOfMetal


Groups: Member
Joined: 1/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4,606
Man
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Derouin wrote:
We are talking in circles!

The real debate is why on earth Ibanez decided to cut corners and not use the fine tuned tail piece on the new model 103s. Not good.


There is no debate, in order to still offer the guitar at a competitive price they had to cut a couple of corners. Personally I'd rather they skimp out on "extras" then more vital things such as pickups or overall build quality.
Current Ibanez "Heard":
91' UV7BK "Green Dot"
91' UV7PWH
Guest
#18 Posted : 6/22/2009 8:32:30 PM
Groups:
Joined: 10/17/2007(UTC)
Posts: 39,204
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
If they skipped out on vitals, then it would obviously be a lesser product, but skipping out on these little extras really makes the guitar something special in my humble opinion. It makes me wonder what kind of capacitors etc are used as well!

Another (expensive) extra that would be great would be a locking TOM bridge, but that is another topic.....
meggiedude
#19 Posted : 6/23/2009 1:47:14 AM
meggiedude


Groups: Member
Joined: 6/3/2009(UTC)
Posts: 312
Location: Warwickshire, UK
There is truth in what you say. With current mass production techniques there are a lot more manufactures providing great guitars. This is particularly the case when a lot of them are badge engineered, where several manufacturers have their guitars coming out of the same factory in Korea or China.
What sets Ibanez apart in my eyes is they use good quality materials, the fit and finish is great (look at the fret ends on the custom models - and the 5 piece neck construction), they throw in some extras like the fine tuners on the tailpiece, and to cap it all the price undercuts the competion for similar spec/quality guitars.
I don't like it when manufacturers take functionality away, with the excuse that 'times are hard'.
It does not work in the car industry - and in the guitar industry it takes some of the wow factor away.
BTW, the other thing I think Ibanez should be doing, is producing hardware where the gold plating is more than a couple of microns thick. Others can - so I never understand why Ibanez can't. Its not a big money saver to have thinly plated components.
booster
#20 Posted : 6/23/2009 6:29:57 AM

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/22/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: UK
The AS103 has to be one of the biggest guitar bargains on the planet. I still can't get over how fasntastic it is, especaially when it only cost me £500 inc case. If is cost three times what i paid i would still think it was good value. It puts an end to the myth that the chinese can't make good guitars. Sadly though, not many potential buyers of semi's at this price know about it and will probably end up buying the equivelent price epiphone or similar instead. I'm guessing, but it would'nt surprise me if thr AS103 was as good as the epiphone elite's which cost considerably more.
Ailsean
#23 Posted : 7/2/2009 8:19:49 PM

Groups: Member
Joined: 12/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 22
If you're so inclined, you can use the fine tuners to make it so all your regular tuners point the same direction.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.