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S570DXQM Excessive fret wear
DW914
#1 Posted : 1/27/2012 5:18:23 PM

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Hello All! My frets (particularly 12th) are showing excessive fret wear. I have had this guitar 9 months and bought it new. I first noticed that when bending at the 12th fret the string seemed to grab and not slide up smoothly. I took a high power magnifying glass to inspect and saw alot of metal shavings. I cleaned the entire fretboard and looked again through the magnifying glass and did a bend on the E. The string dug into the fret and pulled some metal shavings off the fret. I use D'Addario XL Nickel Wound 9-42 strings. I have a Les Paul, Strat, Tele that do not do this. I'm 3 months from my warranty expiration. Has anyone out there experienced this? This is my only Ibanez. Is this common or the exception? Any recomendation? Thanks for the helpful comments. Happy
Matthew@ibanez
#2 Posted : 1/27/2012 5:42:16 PM
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Dee
#3 Posted : 1/27/2012 6:58:26 PM
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Actually I don't need pics to make a decision:

Unless you play 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, you should bring it back immediately!!

I'm a very hard player and I really go through frets, but I NEVER(!!) experienced a fret material where you could actually strip/cut off metal flakes just by bending a string!!! Wall

There's definitely something wrong with the fret wire!

You didn't tell what guitar it is. It might be "normal" for your guitar model if it is a relatively cheap, low budget model. I mean, low prices must "come from somewhere", right??

Honestly, after 28 years of playing I NEVER experienced anything like what you've mentioned!
EDIT: ok, sorry, you mentioned the model in the thread title. Whistle
Regards, Dee
DW914
#4 Posted : 1/28/2012 1:33:33 AM

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The guitar is the S570DXQM. I'ts hard to get a good picture of the frets. I used a Jewellers magnifier glass to make my observation and conclusions. I read my warranty and there is a vague paragraph about not covering normal wear and tear. What's normal? Whatever they don't want to repair would be my guess. At any rate I'm just intermediate level. But I do play a minimum 1-2 hours a day. I guess I'll take it back to the vendor I got it from. But I guess I'm supposed to contact Hoshino first. What fun!
DW914 attached the following image(s):
DW914 attached the following image(s): crop12th between D G shavings.jpg
DW914 attached the following image(s): crop12th clean.jpg
DW914 attached the following image(s): crop12th with shavings.jpg
DW914 attached the following image(s): crop6th clean.jpg
DW914 attached the following image(s): crop6th with shavings.jpg
Pusher
#5 Posted : 1/28/2012 10:18:33 AM

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There is no way you should be able to see metal being shaved off when you bend a string. I don't call that normal wear & tear.
DW914
#6 Posted : 1/28/2012 6:58:06 PM

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I posted the pics of the 6th and 12th frets with a clean (before) and shavings (after a few bends). The shavings appear in the photos as sparkly speckles. If you save the photos to your computer and use a viewer that can zoom in, you will see what I'm seeing. My big question is...do these big luthier companies have different fret stock for certain guitars? I would assume that all frets are made with the same metal. Jumbo, medium, whatever. They would be made by some steel company. I can't accept that I just had bad luck getting this guitar with bad fret material. There must be hundreds out there that were made with these "soft" frets. Anyways...I'll let you all know how the RMA + warranty shakes out with Hoshino. Let's hope Ibanez stands behind their product and does the right thing. I apologize for not posting the pictures with this post. I may be a little (ahem) computer challenged. I could only figure out how to post them in my previous post. I saw the attachment button and jumped on it. Doh
hikaruzero
#7 Posted : 1/29/2012 2:23:00 AM
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Quote:
I would assume that all frets are made with the same metal. Jumbo, medium, whatever.


Actually they are not all made of the same metal (some are nickel-silver, some are stainless steel, I've even heard of titanium), but I would think the Cort factories that Ibanez uses probably all use the same fret wire over most Ibanez guitars.

You say you've had it 9 months. How much do you play? A lot? Do you have a fairly firm grip/touch or a heavy technique? It's not unusual for frets to wear on the top like that, but you definitely should not see shavings that you can create from a single bend.

My frets look like that also, but I have had my guitars for several years now. I don't play as much as I used to but it was never a *whole* lot. I see the sparkles you mention around the frets, but is that 9 month's worth of wearing down or have you cleaned the guitar since you got it and those are mostly from fresh bends?

To be honest your frets don't really look *that* bad. They look "bad" from the top, but all frets will flatten off at the top like that over time where the strings meet them, and the flatness is generally not very deep at all. Look down the length of the fret from the side of the neck and see how deep the wear is. You may want to try using some fine or extra fine steel wool on the frets to polish off the natural corrosion on the sides of the frets so the whole fret is shiny. You might then take another look and think it's not so bad, just that the shinyness and apparent flatness looking at it from the top is unsettling (yet normal on most guitars).
Boogieman
#8 Posted : 1/29/2012 7:11:04 AM
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http://forum.ibanez.com/...re-vs--MIK-Fretwire.aspx
The early bird gets the worm...but the early worm gets the BIRD.


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DW914 on 1/29/2012(UTC)
hibidy
#9 Posted : 1/29/2012 7:21:03 AM

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One thing I do to all of my guitars and if done properly is tedious BUT rewarding is using 0000 steel wool to polish the frets. All of my guitars have odd "dark" looking spots on the frets after playing a while (or especially off the rack)

It has to be done PERFECT as not to ruin the finish/fretboard but if you are interested in trying it the steel wool is easy to get (home depot) and it just requires time and patience. If you are interested I'll PM you with the details. (using the steel wool on the frets will NOT cause any harm :) )
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Pusher
#10 Posted : 1/30/2012 9:15:55 AM

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I always do a fret polish on my guitars. 0000 wire wool, make sure to tape off the fretboard.
jds22
#11 Posted : 1/30/2012 11:16:39 AM

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Originally Posted by: Pusher Go to Quoted Post
I always do a fret polish on my guitars. 0000 wire wool, make sure to tape off the fretboard.


And tape over the pickups.
hibidy
#12 Posted : 1/30/2012 7:56:35 PM

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The part I missed was "metal shavings coming off"
As has been pointed out this is HIGHLY irregular.
some ibanez stuff
one squire jazz bass
Hanes
DW914
#13 Posted : 2/3/2012 6:50:39 AM

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Well....I contacted Hoshino. They seemed genuine in wanting to help me get my guitar evaluated. They gave me the choice to 1. Get an RMA number from them and send it directly to them with no guarantee that they would repair it. Just to evaluate it. Or 2. Take the guitar to an authorized Ibanez repair facility Brawer Stringed Instruments and see Gary Brawer, and he would evaluate it and repair if he felt it was within warranty and then inform Hoshino what needed to be done and do the repair. Guess which option I took. Ding! That's right! I chose option 2. How could I go wrong with that? I would be there talking to and showing the real repair guys what is going on. So I took a day off from work and drove 75 miles one way to San Francisco and got to the shop and asked for Gary Brawer. I was directed to the back of the store and I actually saw the guy and I moved toward him. I was intercepted by his clerk. I told him I needed to speak with Gary (Hoshino's instructions). Gary is literally 8 feet from me and since I was the only customer in the store, I'm sure he could hear me ask for him. To no avail, he ignored me all together. So, I'm left to tell this clerk what the problem is with my guitar and I am following Hoshino's instructions for my warranty. He refuses to look at the guitar. What? Really? He says that all they can do is help me get an RMA number and that I would have to send it to Hoshino. I told him that was not the process Hoshino told me and then I became frustrated with what was happening. The clerk also made it look like he was drafting an email or something like it to Hoshino and that I would have a copy of this file he was making sent to me via email. Never got it.(took a day off work no pay, 140 miles round trip, half a tank of gas gone for nothing. And the very guy I was supposed to see wouldn't talk to me.) I called Hoshino back and got passed to the Ibanez side of the house where no one answers the phone. I was able to leave a brief message for a call back due to my being on hold for so long. The auto attendent was quite friendly. That was yesterday. No call back, no RMA, no repair. Just a headless chicken drill. Thanks Ibanez for being completely unsupportive and not standing by your product. I lost more money from missing work, gas, bridge toll than I would if I just bit the damned bullet and paid a local luthier to re-fret my guitar. The cluster that I experienced in the "authorized Ibanez repair facility" just has me shaking my head. Guess I'll put the piece of junk up on ebay. Maybe someone could make a canoe paddle out of it.

I do want to thank all of you that took your time to post you opinions and support. I greatly appreciate it. I wish you all well and hope you never experience what I did. Last note: I'm more thankful that I have my Gibson and Fenders. They were more expensive, but the quality shows.
hibidy
#14 Posted : 2/3/2012 6:59:08 AM

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Wow, am I PISSED! That was the guy I was going to contact about some niggles and he's that un-accessable? Makes me worried about my ibanez line. Great, something else to get bent about.
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kx-
#15 Posted : 2/3/2012 2:02:51 PM
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^ Omg That sucks dude. What an asshole that guy must be. Hope you have a swing of goodluck come ur way.
Tom@Ibanez
#16 Posted : 2/3/2012 2:43:42 PM
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Gary is a great dude, but generally hard to get a lot of direct contact with because that shop is literally oozing of guitars needing repairs and he's always on the run.

I don't think it was their intention to be disrespectful. This is legitimately one of the best shops we authorize. Those guys are very nice and extremely courteous. We honestly get glowing reviews from all of our customers who go there for service.

With all that aside, I'm not here to make excuses or defend them. Maybe you caught them on a bad day. I don't know for sure. As far as our hold time is concerned....this is the worst time of year to get on the line to be honest. New X-Mas gifts = a lot of calls about model IDs, Warranty Registration, prices, promos, etc...So my apolgoies for the wait on that end


I'm here to help with this problem. And we'll definitely get it addressed for you.


What I'll do here is provide an RMA and Call Tag to have this brought in at no cost to you. I'm going to send you a PM in the next few minutes with my number so you can get in contact with me directly. I want to go over a few things about this and get all of your contact info so I can get all of this started.


I can't make you keep the guitar, but hope that you decide to. We are extremely flexible and easy when it comes to warranty claims. We stand behind our product fully. It is a shame this instance turned so sour, but I'm going to do what I can to turn your opinion around. If all else fails I'll FORCE you to turn it around. Shifty
Pusher
#17 Posted : 2/3/2012 5:14:31 PM

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wow, it would have been less offensive if they'd just told you to F off when you made the inquiry. Disgusting after sales service. I do have to congratulate you for your calm temperament. It is honestly a flaw of mine, but I would have jammed that guitar in his face. I've owned my S series 770 for less than a month, if my frets are shot in 8 months I'll be looking for blood after paying over £500.

Tom, a nice first move, this guy need compensating for his time and gas money, instantly.
hibidy
#18 Posted : 2/3/2012 6:51:20 PM

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I'm not driving my stuff to frisco just to be given the automatic "rma" tag. I've got a bunch of little small niggles that need to be addressed and I need to TALK with a tech about which things are covered, which ones I'm nuts on and which/what I'll pay.

So far the techs I've run into here sac suck wind. They have no idea, DON'T LISTEN and do shoddy work. I basically just put up with minor stuff because no guitar is perfect and I don't trust someone to remove money from my wallet just to do nothing.

I am glad to see Tom on the case though, will follow this with great interest.
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one squire jazz bass
Hanes
hibidy
#19 Posted : 2/3/2012 7:24:30 PM

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Hmmmmm, is that repair center in Benicia, Ca new? Don't remember it last time I checked.
some ibanez stuff
one squire jazz bass
Hanes
DW914
#20 Posted : 2/3/2012 7:41:23 PM

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I received a PM from Tom@Ibanez. He is being very proactive in helping me resolve this issue. I feel I am being "taken care of". I want to imagine that my experience as posted above was just an anomoly. Maybe those guys at that repair facility are celebrity in the City By the Bay, and forget who is ultimately paying their bills. I can't tell for sure. I recommend that all of you out there that know of a good luthier near your home that is not a Certified Ibanez Repair Facility and is very capable, send their information to Tom or Matthew. That's exactly what I did. Perhaps their field rep can get a repair place closer to your home and thus you can avoid my comical and frustrating fiasco.

So in closing, Ibanez is standing behind their product. Sorry to all the Ebay customers putting a bid on that fancy paddle I pulled off the auction. There goes my rating.

I appreciate the kind words of support regarding my calm temperament. It was not easy. I took out my frustration on my amp that night by turning it up to 11. I will probably never get my hearing back, but I feel a lot better somehow. Rock on!
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Tom@Ibanez on 2/3/2012(UTC)
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